Curse

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

You say "fasting at 16 ( NEARLY MAKES THE SKIL RECHARGE HALF )" implying that FC affects recharge. You then proceed to state statistics "SF (1 Second Cast, 1 Second Recharge)" that imply exactly what it does do, reduce cast time. Which is it? And if you read my post, although I realize you possibly read it before my edit, I mentioned why using a me/e searing flames would be ineffective. I understood what you said perfectly, do not patronize me.

Pebbles · Dec 27, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

If they do twiddle Searing flames (whitch it seems obvious that they will) I hope they balance it and don't go completely overboard like they've done in the past.

Excuse my cynnacism and potental paranoia but I do get the feeling that as soon as ele's get out of hospital and find a niche to fill as specified in the game manual They are gonna get there backbone snapped in two again.

Hasn't forgotten or fully forgiven November 2005 Or April 2006 "Disasters"

Francis Crawford · Dec 27, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Xploiter,

If it matters so much to you for people to read your posts, I suggest that you write them more clearly.

Also -- I think you were saying that any elite which is more useful to another primary class than its own proves the whole profession is in bad shape. Does that mean Offering of Blood (pre-nerf) and Mantra of Recall invalidate the whole necro and mesmer professions? Those skills may be more useful monks than mesmers. Does A/R Crit Barrage invalidate rangers (or would it if there were a consensus that Crit Barrage is more powerful than normal Barrage)?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Even if they do go completely overboard and nerf it to hell and gone (which I hope they won't), eles will get along just fine. Believe it or not, they managed to kill things quite well before searing flames came along.

bhavv · Dec 27, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Increase energy cost to 25???

= Balanced.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

No, increasing energy cost to 25 would make it nearly equivalent to rodgort's invocation, yet it is elite and less damage. It simply needs a recharge and/or casting time nerf to be BALANCED. 50/50 chance that anet will nerf it into oblivion instead though.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

You say "fasting at 16 ( NEARLY MAKES THE SKIL RECHARGE HALF )" implying that FC affects recharge. You then proceed to state statistics "SF (1 Second Cast, 1 Second Recharge)" that imply exactly what it does do, reduce cast time. Which is it? And if you read my post, although I realize you possibly read it before my edit, I mentioned why using a me/e searing flames would be ineffective. I understood what you said perfectly, do not patronize me.

Understood the part where i mentioned RECHARGE (YES my bad!!) instead of Cast, But that still doesn't change the idea implied in that post. My example was preety much fit for CASTING and not RECHARGING affects.

As far as the EDIT in your post goes, I think i DID mention that BIP covers that issue with more or less... ease. PVE ofcourse.
As far as PVP goes, It will STILL be used because of the damage potential that it holds before the energy completly Depletes.

Fracis, As far as i know, my posts have made my message go through before, and they do it now as well. 10% to 30% grammer mistakes are better than those long run on sentences (made by a few people that i know) which cover the entire length of the post.

Also, what you seems to be missing is the idea behind the usage of those elites by those professions OTHER than their primaries.

Necros and Mesmers have various elites which are used by them that support their profession's role.
OoB and MoR is not the end of the story for them.

Unlike eles ofcourse who were forced to use their E-Management elite before SF came along. Can you say the very same for necros and mesmers in that aspect?

Do any of these MONKS, Assasins, MESMERS seems forced to run any specific type of elite?
Can you compare the ele elites usage who relied mostly onto their E-management before SF? and even after SF, which other option do eles have available for Damage Dealing? List them up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Even if they do go completely overboard and nerf it to hell and gone (which I hope they won't), eles will get along just fine. Believe it or not, they managed to kill things quite well before searing flames came along.

Could you prove that with the numbers ?
Being Able to Kill the things and being able to Kill the things LESS effectively are two different situations.
Other professions can do killing better.
The whole notion behind Why Nuking Sucks thread was to support that argument. Please, Have a look at it.

And as far as PVP goes, Could you tell me if you saw the usage of eles in Damage Dealing Roles before the SF came along? if so, how often did you see them playing that role of a damage dealer in PVP?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

It does not make SF a more effective skill on a mesmer than on an ele if you're forced to bring along a BiP necro to counter energy needs, as this requires another party slot. As for it being more effective in PvP because of damage before you run out of energy or w/e, you could not be more wrong, you need even more constant damage in PvP than PvE by far.

EDIT: Ironically, as I am posting this under the header "EDIT:" you seem to be editing your posts more than me. At the time I read the post before the above one, there was nothing on BiP. Also your second quote on the above thread was put in as I moved back here to edit this post for the above edit (if that makes sense lol). And yes, before searing flames they killed less effectively, my point was that it was plenty effective, and searing flames is a bit over-effective and over-powered.

wren e · Dec 27, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I seriously do not feel that Searing Flames is overpowered. While the damage is good and has brought the ele back as a damage dealer, it takes more than one to make it really effective. Also almost the entire skill bar is taken up by ensuring that you can effectively use the skill leaving hardly an room for support skills ie wards, heal party, extinquish. Along with that there are many counters to an SF ele its not even funny and most of them are commonly used. If anything, Anet should do just like they did with eviscerate and lower the damage done just slightly while buffing other skills in the fire line to make using them more attractive without killing the skill. I support not killing skills with the nerf stick, I've seen it happen too many times and hope that Anet treats this skill kindly when considering it.

twicky_kid · Dec 27, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

The amount of dmg this skill dishes out is the problem.

The recharge is a necessity because of the nature of the skill. The burning duration is fine.

When you can deal 441 dmg vs 60 AL targets in 6 seconds at a nearby range something is really wrong with that.

Lower the dmg and leave everything else alone.

Venus was her name · Dec 27, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

just got to Hoh with a searing flames team, it no way needs nerfing..its not THAT good.

when "trying" to cap the altar we just couldnt deal with the blue team. having only fire magic as dmg is too limited and restrictive you need to either use something not depending on conditions or use a mix of many things

too easy to defend against one damage type.

i actually think the issue is BURNING being too good. nerf burning not searing flames.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Your 441 damage was a damage over time number, correct? So why lower the damage when you can increase the recharge time, decreasing the damage over time and effectively doing the same thing? While that would result in there being no difference, you avoid whining by people that don't bother calculating the numbers (OMFG YOU LIEK TOTALY PWNZORED DIS SKEEL NAO IT BE WORTLESS). You also make it vulnerable to decrease recharge time effects, but everythings a trade off. The only real reason increasing the recharge time would have such a more drastic effect than decreasing damage is this: you're giving more time to remove burning, causing the skill to cause it's first effect, reducing damage DRASTICALLY as it will only cause burning.

@venus was her name: Maybe blue was good, you sucked, or other team sucked, who knows. As far as I can tell, this thread is mainly aimed at PvE anyway.

@xploitor: I'm not re-reading your posts 5 times to catch your 5 edits, make a new one.

chicks boy · Dec 27, 2006, 03:20 AM // 03:20

yay nerf another skill ok just delete searing flames from guildwars ok??? since now it will be nerfed badly WOHOOOO omfg screw fire now! im going to try earth, ty guildwars for giving the fire skills boring now

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

It does make SF better with BIP in pve because of Damage over time possibilities.
SF mostly seems used to me in DoA, where it IS needed. BIP necro is a must for monks in DoA when compared to the needs of another profession.

The only suggestion i have YET agreed with is Twiky's, which is DMG reduction.

And sure GIMME, i will make a NEW post so you do not have to "re-read" posts.

One more thing. The NERF whine came from PVP. If i recall correctly, monsters don't whine. PVPers who can't find ways to deal with situations do.
So it does not matter how much this thread is related to PVE. This thread was started by the Comments that Gaile Made while on GW. Such could only be the reaction to those threads which were made to cry for the SF nerf.

Vital · Dec 27, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

SF is unbalanced. SF/GG is x2 unbalanced.

SF should = 70 damage at 12, 15/1/3, burning duration is fine for an {elite}.

GG should = 35 damage at 12, 5/1/8, Energy gain (5) (break even) at 12 and (7) max.

REMEMBER...IMO...don't make up some crappy algorithm about how it wont solo Rago Kindlerock.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vital

SF is unbalanced. SF/GG is x2 unbalanced.

SF should = 70 damage at 12, 15/1/3, burning duration is fine for an {elite}.

GG should = 35 damage at 12, 5/1/8, Energy gain (5) (break even) at 12 and (7) max.

REMEMBER...IMO...don't make up some crappy algorithm about how it wont solo Rago Kindlerock.

...... LOL
sure, what ever you say /sarcasm
so.. why am i carrying GG any way ?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

No need to nerf the damage on SF, it is more effective to increase recharge time. As for the complaint (lawl) that this complaint was started by PvPers, I have several things to say. One: if the PvPers need to stop whining more, maybe the PvErs need to stop whining about us whining? ggkthx. Two: Searing flames is not a skill that is a situational unbalance, it is unbalanced-period-as it has the exact same use in PvP and PvE: large AoE damage to kill EVERYTHING (although last time I checked it doesn't affect spirits, which is a serious problem IMO).

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Increasing the recharge reduces to dmg on its own, hence killing 2 birds with 1 shot.
As far as Complaints goes, Why should PVErs stop whining when PVP never bothered stoping that? I have said way too many times that the dmg made by ELES in PVE is Pathetic, and it is a proven fact.

Every same skill has the EXACT same reason of existance in BOTH PVE and PVP.
BUT, monsters and Regular player's AL is NOT the exact same. their Dmg to US is NOT The very same with the VERY same skill. Thus, PVE and PVP are not the exact same!

LARGE AOE dmg to Kill EVERY THING where those "THINGS" stand in NEARBY LOCATION. If your PVP allies are trying to stay close to each other NOT due to some sort of emotional feeling towards each other... then i do suggest you to ask them to NOT stand so F-kin Close!

If your Allies like to Bunch up, that is what SF is there for!

Francis Crawford · Dec 27, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

When you can deal 441 dmg vs 60 AL targets in 6 seconds at a nearby range something is really wrong with that.

Why don't you help us out by explaining the arithmetic and skill sequence on that?

For one thing, it sounds as if you're assuming three straight SFs all cause damage. So was there a MoR as a predecessor?

And by the way -- if you want to bunch up in PvP, maybe you should devote a single slot on somebody's skillbar to Ward Against Elements.

Xpl0iter · Dec 27, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

i just dont see WHY one wishes to Bunch up in PVP.